Philosophy on Two Fronts

By Koba Jaiser

This project functions as a comparative tool for Marx and Plato’ outlining how the two philosophers share connections.

“Philosopher,” Oxford Dictionary Defines it as “A lover of wisdom; an expert in or student of philosophy (in various senses); a person skilled or engaged in philosophical inquiry. Formerly also: †a learned person, a scholar,” (Oxford Dictionary, 2006). 

A philosopher functions as the person who stands between right and wrong’ because something can be both and it takes one to realize this difference in order to understand the full extent of a concept. 

“Plato (429?–347 B.C.E.) is An Athenian citizen of high status, he displays in his works his absorption in the political events and intellectual movements of his time, but the questions he raises are so profound and the strategies he uses for tackling them so richly suggestive and provocative that educated readers of nearly every period have in some way been influenced by him,” (Kraut, 2004).

Plato operates as the forefront for a philosopher’ anyone and everyone interested in philosophy must understand his work. He is arguably the most influential western writer in the realm of philosophy. Many people have been influenced by his work so much so they became exactly what he saw “philosopher kings,” “The philosopher king is a hypothetical ruler in whom political skill is combined with philosophical knowledge,” (Wikipedia, 1). A leader who uses both politics and philosophy to heighten their leadership throughout society, Plato seeks this in all of us’ chosen people who can define their culture. 

“Karl Marx (born May 5, 1818, Trier, Rhine province, Prussia [Germany]—died March 14, 1883, London, England) was a revolutionary, sociologist, historian, and economist. The most celebrated pamphlet in the history of the socialist movement. He also was the author of the movement’s most important book, Das Kapital,” (Feuer, Mclellan, 2024). 

Marx in many ways changed our knowledge of societal functions and what our roles were in a capitalist culture, many didnt know what was right in front of their eyes’ blinding ones vision of everything which needed change. He taught us that nothing is accomplished without everyone contributing their part, Marx changed revolutions’ he brought them to a new height, one we will never fall from; we as a people only grow stronger because with all of us change can be made.

Word Cloud for Book V of Plato’s Republic

Word Cloud for Chapter 10 of Marx’s Capital

Word Cloud for Chapter 7 of Marx’s Capital

Both Plato and Marx use the words “Law” and “Men” within their respective texts’ telling me that these two individuals present similar philosophies in nature. While both Ch.10 and Ch. 7 of Marx use the words “Labour, Power and Time,” a number of times in these texts however Labour is the one word which is used the most between Ch. 10 and Ch.7 of Marx, and out of these three words the only one which is used with Marx and Plato is “time,” out of the words frequently used’ im sure there are many more connections yet to be found.

“The capitalist has bought the labor-power at its day-rate. To him its use-value belongs during one working-day. He has thus acquired the right to make the laborer work for him during one day. But, what is a working-day?” (Marx, ch.10, pg .2). 

“Working Day,” Oxford Dictionary defines it as “ A day of the week on which a person works, or on which people usually or typically work, as opposed to a holiday, weekend, etc.,”( Oxford Dictionary, 2014)

“How is it, then, that you are not making a mistake now and contradicting yourselves, when you say that men and women must do the same jobs, seeing that they have natures that are most distinct?” (Plato, 141). 

“Nature,” Oxford Dictionary Defines it as “The vital or physical powers of a person; a person’s physical strength or constitution. Obsolete,” (Oxford Dictionary, 2003). 

These two quotes share similar ideas since one party discusses the importance of knowing exactly what is the working day in layman’s terms’ to understand the separation between employer and employee. While Plato talks about the ignorance within the job market’ purposely not giving Women a chance in the workforce. He tells us Men and Women are not similar in many facets’ and that they can’t do the same jobs but that doesn’t mean they should be shut down. This comparison highlights the different issues specific to the time period while part-taking in a number of opinionated ideas, such as if women should work or not, and what the working day is.

Unlike many philosophical thinkers you could compare both Plato and Marx invoke an imaginary civilization of near perfection. I’m talking about Marx’s capital and Plato’s Kallipolis. Both very distinct creations but in nature draw from the same overlying concept. They both take from this idea that we must change society because it in itself doesn’t suit us. “Callipolis is the Latinized form of Kallipolis (Καλλίπολις), which is Greek for “beautiful city,” (Wikipedia, Callipolis, 1). This is very interesting because “Capital, is a foundational theoretical text in materialist philosophy and critique of political economy written by Karl Marx, the text contains Marx’s analysis of capitalism, to which he sought to apply his theory of historical materialism “to lay bare the economic law of motion of modern society,” (Wikipedia, Das Kapital, 1). Both are text’s trying to shape society and pointing out exactly what it is through different views both philosophical with alternate ideologies.

“The capitalist has his own views of this ultima Thule [the outermost limit], the necessary limit of the working-day. As capitalist, he is only capital personified. His soul is the soul of capital. But capital has one single life impulse, the tendency to create value and surplus-value, to make its constant factor, the means of production, absorb the greatest possible amount of surplus-labour.” (Marx, Ch. 10, pg. 2). 

“Capitalist,” Oxford dictionary defines it as “A person who possesses capital assets one who invests these esp. for profit in financial and business enterprises. Also: an advocate of capitalism or of an economic system based on capitalism,” (Oxford English Dictionary, 2012).

“So then, we will have to establish by law certain festivals and sacrifices at which we will bring together brides and bridegrooms, and our poets must compose suitable hymns for the marriages that take place. We will leave the number of marriages for the rulers to decide. That will enable them to keep the number of males as constant as possible, taking into account war, disease, and everything of that sort; so that the city will, as far as possible, become neither too great nor too small.” (Plato, 149). 

“Law,” Oxford Dictionary Defines it as “The body of rules, whether proceeding from formal enactment or from custom, which a particular state or community recognizes as binding on its members or subjects,” (Oxford Dictionary, 1902).  

These two points show the essence of identifying and changing society in certain disciplines. Yes, Marx’s stabs at a strictly capitalist view is very informative on what it’s like to think as one maybe even live, society in their world. Except Plato is pointing to a civilization where rulers have more power on the population’s inhabitants specifically on who they happen to be rather than letting any human live within this culture only the best will be selected. Now these two present meaningful ways to see our world. One would say you cannot look through just a single lens but rather must take in the whole picture if you intend to comprehend what is in front of you. Marx’s lens in many ways is comparable to Plato’s because in a sense being a capitalist is simplifying a society to one way of government. In Plato’s case he’s proposing a specific government selection of its inhabitants’ saying he desires a certain type of rule and in this case both Plato and Marx are discussing types of law.  

“Labour is, in the first place, a process in which both man and Nature participate, and in which man of his own accord starts, regulates, and controls the material re-actions between himself and Nature,” (Marx, Ch. 7, 1). 

“However, if we discover the nature of justice, should we also expect the just man not to differ from justice itself in any way, but, on the contrary, to have entirely the same nature it does? Or will we be satisfied if he approximates as closely as possible to it and partakes in it far more than anyone else?” (Plato, 165). 

“Justice,” Oxford English Dictionary defines it as “Maintenance of what is just or right by the exercise of authority or power; assignment of deserved reward or punishment; giving of due deserts,” (Oxford English Dictionary, 2013). 

Now this is a story reflecting two points both which infer man defying a set rule based on a power that controls them in certain aspects. Marx brings to an idea about a concept one called labour’ a set of tasks where man and nature intertwine. While Plato talks about justice being the factor and its interesting because that is more so based on your moral set of beliefs rather than desired profession. Even though these are both radically different things in nature’ both Marx and Plato talk about a thing which has power over man, it may be very hard to compare but when you break these two down, there are significant similarities such as how Man participates in societal connections. You need some essense of justice to perform labour’ without it, one might see you as inhuman or not care at all. Society chooses which morals we must have and often many are left to fade away while labour has been a common conception for so long before morals probably existed. The labour we know does need humanity for the most part’ so the job can be carried out. Plato tells us that if a Man bases their whole life around one specific moral construct they may never see the full extent of the other forms in nature. Marx’s ideas support this point because he shows us that in order to fully conceptualize something you must understand its counterpart as well’ you can’t just limit yourself to a single notion.

“In a wider sense we may include among the instruments of labour, in addition to those things that are used for directly transferring labour to its subject, and which therefore, in one way or another, serve as conductors of activity, all such objects as are necessary for carrying on the labour-process,” (Marx, Ch. 7, 3). 

“Labour,” Oxford Dictionary Defines it as “An instance of physical or mental exertion; a piece of work that has been or is to be performed; a task,” (Oxford Dictionary, 2010). 

“But when it became clear, I take it, to those who employed these practices, that it was better to strip than to cover up all such parts, the laughter in the eyes faded away because of what the arguments had proved to be best. And this showed that it is a fool who finds anything ridiculous except what is bad, or tries to raise a laugh at the sight of anything except what is stupid or bad, or— putting it the other way around— who takes seriously any standard of what is beautiful other than what is good,” (Plato, 140). 

These quotes are rather different in nature but do provide an intriguing comparison. One is talking about how the instruments of labour transfer to the individual performing the labour and the other about the difference between taking something one way or another; but to me these sound somewhat similar. Marx highlights an idea of the labour process, and how it is carried out’ certain tools work as conduits transferring information to its subject through labour. Plato presents that there are certainly differences between one thing and another once you take apart the whole and that itself reminds me of Marx’s point solely because to perform labour you must understand its whole, and meaning for the work to be completed properly. There is no labour without a person to do such actions. Plato and Marx are speaking through different time periods but with the same purpose, one tells us in order for labour to be carried out “all such objects are necessary,” (Marx, Ch. 7,3). While Plato speaks to that for the whole “It was better to strip than to cover up all such parts,” (Plato, 140). Both envision an idea talking about how you must see the complete version of a thing in order to enact said action. 

The symposium described in the Symposium of Plato: the drunken Alcibiades enters on the left. Etching by P. Testa, 1648. (Testa, 1648).

Portrait of Karl Marx (1818–1883), (Wikipedia, 1875).

Parade in Vladivostok, workers carrying portraits of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, (Photo from Russia 1920). 

Plato teaching at his Academy: a gathering of students, among them possibly Aristotle, in a leafy setting. Engraving after S. Rosa, (Rosa, 1540). 

Picture 1 – The most famous pictorial representation of Plato to date’ a very notable piece.  It depicts a friendly contest of extemporaneous speeches given by a group of notable Athenian men attending a banquet,” (Wikipedia,Symposium (Plato), 1). An event held by Plato, which tells me something’ for one that Plato was a man of the people based on this image we can infer that, also the way people seem to be sucking up to him looking for his power and wisdom. We have a man engorged within his world, a man of the community, a true innovator. 

Picture 2 – A portrait of Karl Marx, one of if not the most recognizable portraits we have of Marx, there is alot to take from this piece. In nature his posture seems of someone who is very professional and prepared. He looks like a man who has lots of knowledge to share with the world, a person who has seen this place more times than they can count. That’s what I get from this frame of Marx. 

These two pieces both present Marx and Plato in their own ways’ sharing exactly who each person is, two different individuals but both Men of the people through opposite lenses. One operates as a more extroverted presenter while the other furthermore introverted in a way we must look at these human’s from their own time, and within that we can see that they very much represent what is the model for a philosopher. Meaning these two images may be so different but through a closer look they actually present the same focus. 

Picture 3 – A rally of citizens in Russia, 1920’ during a job crisis’ these individuals look to their philosophical idols to create/represent change within their respective countries. 

Picture 4 – An image of Plato educating fellow learners on his philosophies’ this is the way many philosophers were depicted in that time’ as people carrying wisdom, knowledge, the forefront for what is societal change. 

Both pieces are radically different but they both reflect images of people going to philosophers in order to change their society, and gain the wisdom which is desired. It’s a representation of people running out of hope so they turn to individuals such as Plato, Marx, for ideas to fix what’s wrong. Yes these are completely different Philosophies but in ways they are similar, Plato dreams of a beautiful city while Marx of understanding modern society, because if we can comprehend the society within us’ we can create change. This beautiful city can only be created if the current one is taken apart; reworked in nature’ something that also requires this understanding. See now Marx and Plato aren’t so different after all. 

“Philosophy (φιλοσοφία, ‘love of wisdom’, in Ancient Greek) is a systematic study of general and fundamental questions concerning topics like existence, reason, knowledge, value, mind, and language. It is a rational and critical inquiry that reflects on its own methods and assumptions,” (Wikipedia, 1).

A philosopher tends to be someone leaving us with a question. I want to ask you, do Marx and Plato fall into that conversation? Personally I believe so’ fore one Marx urges us to question a system so controversial such as capitalism, many people may shun Marx because he specifically targeted government systems truly because they had crucial flaws, he urges people to question the situation that’s present within their society while Plato the society itself. As he intends to shape culture through Philosophy’ the two both extensively push considering what the government really is. “Plato introduced the idea that their mistakes were due to their not engaging properly with a class of entities he called forms, chief examples of which were Justice, Beauty, and Equality,” (Meinwald, 2024). Telling us that Plato took a step back from what was and attempted to see what is the truth’ there is no right or wrong way to do things but rather the process those are carried out, such as saying the water is moving with the person instead of the person is moving with water. Plato changed Philosophy by just zooming out taking in the full picture while others stayed cramped in a concept which was much larger than themselves. “The written work of Marx cannot be reduced to a philosophy, much less to a philosophical system. The whole of his work is a radical critique of philosophy,” (Mclellan, Chambre, 2024). Marx never specifically uses a philosophy he critiques certain system’s and reflects on it’ a system of criticizing what is already there rather than what isn’t. Most philosophers imagine the future where Marx, the past. Plato and Marx may be very different in nature but both very much so want us as a people to question our governments, and initiate change where it belongs but understanding there will never be a perfect society. People need a voice and these philosophers were there’ they altered the course of human history by evolving it, analyzing it, criticizing it, reflecting and reforming what is our culture and they still are as long as you believe, let me tell you I do. 

Works Cited

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Plato. Republic, Hackett Publishing Company, Incorporated, 2004. ProQuest Ebook Central, pg. (140, 141, 149, 165), http://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/templeuniv-ebooks/detail.action?docID=295397. Created from templeuniv-ebooks on 2024-04-26 02:15:52.

Marx, Karl. Capital Volume One, Chapter Ten: The Working Day, Transcribed by Zodiac Html Markup by Stephen Baird (1999) pg. (2).

“Working Day, Adj.” Oxford English Dictionary, Oxford UP, July 2023, https://doi.org/10.1093/OED/1170295839. 

Marx, Karl. Capital Volume One, Part III: The Production of Absolute Surplus-Value, Chapter Seven: The Labour-Process and the Process of Producing Surplus-Value, Transcribed by Zodiac Html Markup by Stephen Baird (1999) pg. (1,3).

Testa, Pietro, 1611-1650., and Cellesio, Fabrizio, active 1648. The Symposium Described in the Symposium of Plato: The Drunken Alcibiades Enters on the Left. Etching by P. Testa, 1648. 1 print : etching, 1648. Wellcome Collection, JSTOR, https://jstor.org/stable/community.24906600. Accessed 28 Apr. 2024.

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Marx, Karl. Capital Volume One, Part III: The Production of Absolute Surplus-Value, Chapter Seven: The Labour-Process and the Process of Producing Surplus-Value, Voyant Analysis,  https://voyant-tools.org/?corpus=fe3b27a9b896743c4476ce18d8710b90 

Marx, Karl. Capital Volume One, Chapter Ten: The Working Day, Voyant Analysis, https://voyant-tools.org/?corpus=c8e710089a2d8f44ebfbe18f34ca1a54 

Plato. Republic, Word Cloud, Taken from IH2 week 6 Plato Module

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Parade in Vladivostok, Workers Carrying Portraits of Marx, Lenin, Trotsky. 1920. JSTOR, https://jstor.org/stable/community.13874587. Accessed 29 Apr. 2024.

Salvatore Rosa. Plato Teaching at His Academy: A Gathering of Students, among Them Possibly Aristotle, in a Leafy Setting. Engraving after S. Rosa. 1540. Wellcome Collection, JSTOR, https://jstor.org/stable/community.24830160.  Accessed 29 Apr. 2024.

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